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(93 of 93)
Jul 25, 2007 4:20 AM
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>
> i loved moving all over the place. my favorite was
> Bad Kreuznach Germany. wonderful country.
Bad Kreuznach rings a bell with me e.greeley, but since I never lived there i'm not sure why! Was there by any chance a restaurant or pub off-post that looked like a giant beer keg? We used to go to a place when I was a kid that looked like that, we kids just loved it because apparently we would go during festival season and there were carnival rides there! Anyway, that's the image that popped into my head when you said Bad Kreuznach.
One of my favorite places in Germany was Augsburg, and I also loved when I was stationed at a place called Mt. Meissner which was a very tiny site on the top of a mountain near Eschwege West...the country as a whole is just beautiful and the people of Germany are wonderful!
Edited to say Bad Durkheim is actually the place I was thinking of, so i'm still not sure why Bad Kreuznach rings bells with me!
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Reality
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Edited by realityaddict06 at 07/25/2007 2:23 AM
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(92 of 93)
Jul 24, 2007 9:07 PM
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you know what is odd about cewofty? he seems to think if it ain't in the reg, then it don't happen. geez.
the army is regulated, but the army is run by *real* men and women.
Yes, human beings make mistakes....but offices that have to account for their supplies every year to get their full budget don't misplace that many items unless they want to lose funding.
Of course a certain amount of loss is expected but a large scale loss would be suspicious and not tolerated.
But let me give you another link that is specific to this case....just so this stays about Macdonald. LOL
http://www.bragg.army.mil/PWBC-HSG/accompaniedfaq.htm
Specifically question #16
that 90 days can be stretched out for 3 years. you just resign the inventory. it has been done, i have seen it.
No matter how you try to spin it, reality addict06 has been clear in saying the houses had furniture in them on arriving. So we're past "borrowing" and into insisting on "furnished" housing. So the 90 day thing going to 3 years isn't the point to this debate anymore.
Its better to ask me directly to explain, I find people that make side comments to another poster about me and my posts are rarely interested in actual information. In my experience those types of comments are for another reason....I hope not in this case, e.greeley.
i guess that's what i was trying to say. isn't fort bragg one of the biggest army posts in the US? i remember the loooooong distances between places.
(made for running those airborne troops!) the housing is in a certain area, and if you didn't "belong" you would be checked out. i have been on *many* patrols/security checks. if someone was on my post that looked out of place, they would be "HALTED"
Not having been stationed at Fort Bragg I don't know what their housing was like in the late 60s. However I've lived on 3 bases where housing wasn't actually on the base. At one base the community was adjacent and within the fences, but the gate for the housing area was rarely manned. So, really, anyone could come and go when no one manned the gate.
Another base our housing area was 5 miles away from the base. We had no gates, no fencing, etc. The only security we had from the base was constant patrols.
The base we live on now we are once again adjacent to housing but we are outside the fence and no gate. We do have bike patrols during the day and car patrols at night.
If Ft. Bragg's housing was like this, the people hanging around may mean nothing. A person that was stationed at Ft. Bragg at the time would have a better idea how enclosed it was, but I seem to remember seeing a post on this at one time on another site....don't remember which one.
the post may have been "open" but outsiders are quickly picked out.
Wait a minute...are we talking about people other than Stoekley and Mitchell? Because both had ties to the base and wouldn't necessarily be pegged as outsiders.
cewofty,
i want to apologize for referring to you as a HIM/HE.
went back and read your posts, then realized you said "my husband"
sorry.
Don't worry about it. Trust me, I've been referred to as a man more than once....must be my writing style or something. 
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I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me to.
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Edited by cewofty at 07/24/2007 6:09 PM
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Re: One difference (e.greeley)
Jul 24, 2007 8:18 PM
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cewofty,
i want to apologize for referring to you as a HIM/HE.
went back and read your posts, then realized you said "my husband"
sorry.
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171
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(90 of 93)
Re: Clear away the clouds (reality addict06)
Jul 24, 2007 7:56 PM
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LOL
"I too have trouble with the concept of a band of hippies roaming the streets of a major American army post looking for a family to kill...seems like they would be more interested in other things like, oh I don't know, getting high maybe, or indulging in all that hippie "free love" stuff!!!"
i guess that's what i was trying to say. isn't fort bragg one of the biggest army posts in the US? i remember the loooooong distances between places.
(made for running those airborne troops!) the housing is in a certain area, and if you didn't "belong" you would be checked out. i have been on *many* patrols/security checks. if someone was on my post that looked out of place, they would be "HALTED"
the idea that strange, weird men and/or women were just standing around in housing (or anywhere on post) in the middle of a rainy february night (yes, it does get miserably cold in north carolina) stretches the rubber band of credulity to the breaking point.
the post may have been "open" but outsiders are quickly picked out.
you know what is odd about cewofty? he seems to think if it ain't in the reg, then it don't happen. geez.
the army is regulated, but the army is run by *real* men and women. that 90 days can be stretched out for 3 years. you just resign the inventory. it has been done, i have seen it.
i loved moving all over the place. my favorite was Bad Kreuznach Germany. wonderful country.
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Posts:
171
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Registered:
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(89 of 93)
Re: Clear away the clouds (reality addict06)
Jul 24, 2007 7:54 PM
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Greeley:
Thank you so much for your kind words.
I appreciate the information, now if I could just wrap my head around 300 meters.....never got the metric thing...LOL. I'll figure it out.
Please try to come to one of our live chats, your input would be welcome, as would anyone else's who would like to come...tonite at 8!!! Hope to see you all there.
Take care,
Penn
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(88 of 93)
Re: Clear away the clouds (reality addict06)
Jul 24, 2007 6:20 PM
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pennurse525
i googled a map of the address at 544 castle drive.
from my quick look and my memory, the house is about 300 meters from the main road (bragg blvd) which runs thru post. bragg blvd was 6 lanes wide (i think) and it is a major thoroughfare. it the trippin hippies wandered onto post from bragg blvd, thru heavy brush and and pine trees, why would they pick a house that was not at the edge, but a few houses in? if they drove onto post what were they driving. i think it is strange when people say it was an "open post" and strange people were just wandering around. i guess its possible but highly unlikely.
housing was full of soldiers and their families on a 24 hour clock. if there were hippies from the drug problem in Fayetteville, there would have been extra rounds done by the on duty guards.
i have so much more to say. i have to come back later.
ps pennurse, my mother was trained by the army as an registered nurse, and she had a job for many years at western pennsylvania hospital. seeing your name made me think of her and that was nice. 
i have read many of your posts, and you impress me as a very smart person just as she was!!
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Re: Hmmmm..... (reality addict06)
Jul 24, 2007 3:35 AM
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> I think you should look at your previous posts again,
> specifically posts #12 and #70.
>
> You not only state but imply furniture was provided
> at all postings and that your parents didn't
> have to buy furniture until after they were out of
> the service because it was provided for them at all
> postings.
>
> Unless you spent all your career overseas, which you
> stated your family did not, you could not have had
> furniture provided for you in Family Housing. AR
> 210-50 confirms that furniture is not provided on
> more than a temporary basis in CONUS locations.
>
> I do have to wonder again about the point you are
> trying to make since command sponsorship, especially
> overseas, is more the norm than the exception,
> meaning you live in furnished houses.
>
> You didn't understand the reg. When you go overseas
> you do not go to furnished houses. You go to
> houses/apartments that are unfurnished which can be
> furnished by either your own belongings, by furniture
> you have to ask for through the FMO or by a mixture
> of both.
>
> --
> I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me to.
I repeat cewofty that I NEVER moved into an unfurnished home on a military base. ALL were fully furnished both here on army bases in this country and overseas. When my father retired and we returned to the states to our home in Mass, my parents had to purchase furniture as we did not have any thanks to living in fully furnished army quarters for the duration of my father's military career, period. I stand by my posts, I am not in the habit of making things up, and my life is what I say it is, and i'm not going to continue discussing this since you seem intent on trying to tell me that the facts of my life are not what they are. I have never lived in enlisted quarters (other than the barracks I lived in while I was in the army), I lived in officer housing both here and overseas, and my father's last assignment landed us in the post commander's house...all were FULLY FURNISHED with furniture provided by the army.
WHen I married my husband, he was stationed at Ft. Knox, living off-post in a house he and his then wife purchased. He was sent to Japan for his last tour before we could marry, so he came home to KY as soon as he could get the leave, we got married and once I had taken care of doing all that needed doing prior to me moving my daughter and I to Japan to be with him, we joined him in Japan where we lived for a couple of months off post in a japanese house using furniture provided by the army until quarters were available...a couple of months. ONce we had quarters we moved in to our fully furnished on post house. The furniture he owned for his house in KY was stateside in storage where it stayed till he left the army after that tour.
So in case you missed my point, I have NEVER lived in an unfurnished home on a military base, either in the states or overseas, all were fully furnished with that lovely army furniture comprised of beds, dressers, sofa's, chairs, desks, china cabinets, etc. and most were ready for us to move into without having to wait for furniture...we had to live in temp housing a time or two while quarters were being painted, or for availability reasons, but the houses were furnished when we moved in.
--
Reality
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Edited by realityaddict06 at 07/24/2007 12:41 AM
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Posts:
171
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Registered:
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(86 of 93)
Re: Clear away the clouds (reality addict06)
Jul 23, 2007 11:56 PM
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Joyn:
I never said no one roamed. I said a band of roving murderers high on whatever were hard to stomach.
Mica saw a woman. We have no idea who she was, but given that it was an open post, it could've been anyone.
The fact is, that there is NO EVIDENCE to demonstrate the presence of >5 butchering hippies inside 544 Castle Dr. on 2/16-2/17/70.
Colette saying that they were enjoying an army "vacation" and happily expecting a third child...
What was she to say???? Her family was hundreds of miles away, and she was stuck in a house with two small kids alone whilst her ever energetic husband worked all hours of the days and night.......if you were stuck in a marriage that was losing steam and with a husband who's behavior was beginning to wear on you, what would you say????
Life sucks, my husband cheats on me, he's never home and he is a controlling, compulsive Nazi when he is---but hey, we're having a baby?
Gimme a break. Only someone who had never tried to deal and make due would anticipate that a grown woman would verbally vomit all of that. What is more likely is that Colette was trying to make the best out of a bad situation and putting on a brave face to not worry her mother and Freddy. Unfortunately what she received in return was disrespect, violence and savagery at the hands of her husband.
Penn
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Registered:
6/20/07
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(85 of 93)
Jul 23, 2007 10:51 PM
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Seems we got off on a tangent about furnished apartments and such...but did anyone else notice the lightweight presentation of the the evidence that convicted Mac on 48 hours?
Almost a "politically correct" presentation. Of course, I am very biased. I know the case, for 20 plus years, and it is obvious to anyone that can read that he is guilty as hell.
Mystery? Only if you filter out certain facts, and don't want to believe somebody could actually do this.
Anyone elses feelings on the presentation of both sides?
I felt that they could have said more about WHY they know that the bodies were moved.....and HOW the PJ top lined up on Collette's chest, etc....not just lightly covering the blood on the bedsheet. Somebody not familiar with ALL of the facts could come away thinking there is reasonable doubt....and there isn't any.
And before you respond, ad nauseum, rjtva....how about a reference to a case fact somewhere in a post from now on....in fact, anyone in the Mac is god camp, please....just once....use a reasonable set of references or facts when presenting your side. Lot's of us know the case facts.
It would make interesting, and thought provoking reading....really it would....the rest of the "mac is railroaded" posts are hooey. Lightweight....boring stuff....truly crap.
Political correctness isn't one of my strong traits, sorry.
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Edited by soundboy at 07/23/2007 7:54 PM
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(84 of 93)
Jul 23, 2007 7:55 PM
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Collette wrote a letter that said that MacDonald was home every night and as a result of this, they were happily expecting an addition to the family. The result of what she called an army "vacation".
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joyn49
In fairness, Joy, Colette wrote that letter in the fall of '69. During most of Dec. and Jan. and Feb. MacD was moonlighting at two local hospitals (24 hrs. at the time), and seeking another moonlighting job. He wasn't home at night much during Jan. and Feb. of '70.
I am sure Colette hid the bad things, and embellished the good things in her cards and letters, just like most of us do. ashley
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Re: Clear away the clouds (reality addict06)
Jul 23, 2007 3:37 PM
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There were people that heard/saw people roaming the neighborhood on the night in question.
Hmmm. Let's see...Mrs. Casper, who lived about half a block and across Dougherty from the MacDonald apartment, said that as she was drifting off to sleep (apparently around 11:45 p.m. or so), she heard two male voices and a female voice laughing and "scuffling" near her house. Her husband said he heard what seemed like "two or more" voices laughing, and footsteps running through the water, and I believe he said he thought it might be children who had lived next door. Neither of the Caspers said they heard anything that would lead them to think that the people they claim to have heard were six or more drug-crazed hippies.
Almost ten years later, James Milne described seeing three people in sheets (somewhere around 11:30-11:45, I think it was), and said that one of whom was a female with "beautiful" hair, which of course doesn't match Mac's description of any of the "intruders."
Another neighbor who was unloading a trailer at about 3:00 a.m. said he saw and heard nothing at all.
While certainly there could be people walking in the neighborhood that night--a "neighborhood" that according to the defense seems to encompass quite a large area--I don't recall anyone claiming to have seen or heard a band of six or more drug-crazed hippies roaming freely throughout the neighborhood that night.
And of course, as most of us recognize, it wouldn't matter if Fayetteville's entire hippie population had been standing outside Mac's door that night, since it wouldn't have affected the evidence inside 544 Castle Drive at all.
Mica saw someone on the street on base, so the idea that no one "roamed freely" is in error.
I don't think Mica ever claimed that the female he allegedly saw was roaming the neighborhood. And of course Mica's claim that he saw a female on a street corner (alone, and wearing a dark rain hat and rain coat, and apparently not wearing boots, and apparently not bloody) has some problems, since his description of her doesn't seem to match Mac's description of the female "intruder" very well, and since this alleged sighting has never been corroborated by anyone, not even Mica's own patrol partner.
Collette [sic] wrote a letter that said that MacDonald was home every night and as a result of this, they were happily expecting an addition to the family. The result of what she called an army "vacation".
Judging by some of the statements and testimonies of others, apparently Colette was very careful to always write only about the "good things," and never to let on to anyone that things might be going badly between herself and the murderer.
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Edited by Bunny2 at 07/23/2007 1:00 PM
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974
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Re: Clear away the clouds (reality addict06)
Jul 23, 2007 1:38 PM
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> Greeley:
> Would you mind elaborating on your doubts about the
> tripping hippies?
>
> The MacCamp always states that in 1970 this was an
> occurence that happened, with drugs running rampant
> in Fayetteville, and people milling about on the open
> post...
>
> Would love to hear your thoughts. I have always felt
> that the quarters were so close that the idea of the
> band of roving murderers was not something that
> would've gone unnoticed.
>
> That, and the MOUNTAIN of physical evidence against
> INMATE is evidence of guilt...but would love to know
> your ideas since you've lived there you have a unique
> perspective.
>
> Thanks
> Penn
There were people that heard/saw people roaming the neighborhood on the night in question. Mica saw someone on the street on base, so the idea that no one "roamed freely" is in error. Collette wrote a letter that said that MacDonald was home every night and as a result of this, they were happily expecting an addition to the family. The result of what she called an army "vacation".
--
joyn49
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(81 of 93)
One difference (e.greeley)
Jul 23, 2007 11:39 AM
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in Germany again as an active duty soldier, we borrowed furniture until ours arrived (household goods) as opposed to hold baggage (what we needed to get by until the household goods arrived)
actually, when i saw the furniture pictured, i said to myself "yeah, that's army issue and it hasn't changed much!"
LOL
What you're talking about here is different than what reality addict06 and I were talking about. Almost every base in every service both CONUS and overseas has a borrowing policy for household furnishings. You can usually keep them 90 days until your stuff comes. Of course you are always supposed to send your hold baggage and bring enough for two weeks stay when moving.
However this is a completely different issue from the long term issue of furnishings that are only allowed, by Army reg, in overseas locations.
--
I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me to.
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Hmmmm..... (reality addict06)
Jul 23, 2007 11:32 AM
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I think you should look at your previous posts again, specifically posts #12 and #70.
You not only state but imply furniture was provided at all postings and that your parents didn't have to buy furniture until after they were out of the service because it was provided for them at all postings.
Unless you spent all your career overseas, which you stated your family did not, you could not have had furniture provided for you in Family Housing. AR 210-50 confirms that furniture is not provided on more than a temporary basis in CONUS locations.
I do have to wonder again about the point you are trying to make since command sponsorship, especially overseas, is more the norm than the exception, meaning you live in furnished houses.
You didn't understand the reg. When you go overseas you do not go to furnished houses. You go to houses/apartments that are unfurnished which can be furnished by either your own belongings, by furniture you have to ask for through the FMO or by a mixture of both.
--
I do whatever my Rice Krispies tell me to.
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Posts:
411
Registered:
1/21/06
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(79 of 93)
Re: Clear away the clouds (reality addict06)
Jul 23, 2007 1:38 AM
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> i am with you reality addict 06.
> and i am not going to open something with that has a
> suspect security link.
> the marines may different,
> but
> i have been an army dependent (as a child) and army
> spouse (married to an airborne soldier) and active
> duty myself.
> we most certainly had furnished apartments. some of
> the enlisted people could borrow furniture for their
> entire tour.
> when i was a child in Germany (40 years ago) our
> entire house was furnished with military
> furnishings.
> in Germany again as an active duty soldier, we
> borrowed furniture until ours arrived (household
> goods) as opposed to hold baggage (what we needed to
> get by until the household goods arrived)
> actually, when i saw the furniture pictured, i said
> to myself "yeah, that's army issue and it hasn't
> changed much!"
> LOL
> <shrug>
> also, like to note that i have lived on Fort Bragg as
> a child, and off post as an adult.
> so there are many problems i have with a group of
> trippin hippies wandering around post looking for a
> family to kill.
> damn, that is just stupid.
Nice to meet you e. greeley  . Growing up I remember that the only things we shipped from place to place, country to country were mostly personal household items, things like stereo equipment (hifi's back then...LOL), clothing, bedding, dishes, knickknacks, books, etc. I always loved it though, living all over the world was a nice way to grow up!
I too have trouble with the concept of a band of hippies roaming the streets of a major American army post looking for a family to kill...seems like they would be more interested in other things like, oh I don't know, getting high maybe, or indulging in all that hippie "free love" stuff!!!
--
Reality
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