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Posts:
1
Registered:
10/29/08
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(42 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Oct 29, 2008 4:34 AM
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In my opinion, the representations found in the show, regardless whether they are racist, biased, disproportionate, etc., all lead me to believe that something is not not working in our nation. Perhaps crimes are higher in African-American communities because representations instruct this type of behavior, self-fulfilling prophecies, the institution working against certain groups, hegemony at it's best. For whatever reason, I feel that this so-called democracy constituted by the notion of "liberty and justice for all" has serious flaws that must be addressed. I can only hope that all viewers interpret the show as an opportunity to see what happens when retribution/ vengeance get the best of human beings and I hope they realize it's not worth it. The worst part is that after most episodes, I feel sad for both parties because both parties have lost a loved one (one to murder, the other to prison). I pray that the show will succeed in reversing at least some of what is wrong with the American nation. Call me an idealist, or naive, but I believe in solidarity and "one nation under God." Is that too much to consider? I truly hope that the election this year will put the country [back] on the right track if there is such a track.
In solidarity!
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Posts:
6
From:
Oakland
Registered:
5/30/08
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(41 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Jul 15, 2008 10:30 PM
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I appreciate Flimstudents comments and respectful disagreements, his type of discourse should be what’s encouraged. That being said when I talked about cases being solve I was talking about actual convictions in a court room not simply being cleared. According to the FBI a case is considered cleared when the following conditions are met
1. A person or persons are arrested
2. Charged with the commission of the offense
3. Turned over to the court for prosecution( whether following arrest, court summons, or law enforcement notice
Nowhere in the criteria does it mention anything about conviction. Conviction of a crime is the key, it does not do anybody any good to go out and arrest people for a crime if you can’t get a conviction thereby keeping that person off the street and away from the public. Even If I accepted your number of 55% - 57% (which again represents according to the FBI the percentage of cases cleared by arrest, not conviction) in academic terms that would still be an F or a D- at best. You’re basically saying that roughly 1 out of 2 people will be arrested and charged with a crime, which is still not represented on “The First 48” because the majority of cases end in an arrest, which is only possible because the show is highly edited to seem that why, which is another reason why this show is misleading. To address Mr. Pewty’s comments the FBI’s data also showed upon analysis that while African Americans do seem to be victims and perpetrators’ of homicides in disproportionate numbers the majority of murder victims and the subsequent perpetrators were in fact not black, hence my comments about “Nacy Grace” and “On the record with Greta Van Susteren”. If nationally at the end of the day if blacks are not the majority of the offenders and victims, then where are these other cases and why aren’t they being showcased. This fact is what led me to make the statement about the exploitation of a tragic situation in black and brown communities. Apparently I am not the only one who felt this way because one of the participates namely the city of “ Memphis” has pulled out stating they did not like the way the show portrayed its city.
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Posts:
1
From:
Phoenix AZ
Registered:
7/15/08
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(40 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Jul 15, 2008 5:19 PM
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If you were a TV show producer, and wanted to do a show about exotic cars, you'd go to Beverly Hills, where there are a lot of Lamborghini's, Ferrari's etc. If you wanted to do a show on Corn, you'd go to Nebraska. So it seems to me, that if you want to do a show about how murders are solved, you go where there are a lot of murder's. Right? It just so happens that blacks murder others in much larger numbers than other races. If you went to La Jolla, or Rancho Santa Fe to do the show, you could be waiting years for a murder. Why? Because they are all white people there, who are a LOT less violent than Negroes.
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Posts:
16
From:
Baltimore, MD
Registered:
11/7/06
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(39 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Jul 11, 2008 11:24 PM
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Realty616:
I think your general point has some merit, but your statistics that you base your argument on are completely off the mark.
In the cities where First 48 is filmed, here is how the race of the victims break down (according to FBI) in 2005:
LOCATION # of VICTIMS %WHITES %BLACKS #OTHERS
Minneapolis Police Dept MN 47 17.0 66.0 12.8
Kansas City Police Dept MO 126 31.7 67.5 .8
Cincinnati Police Dept OH 79 13.9 82.3 0
Memphis Police Dept TN 138 16.7 81.2 1.4
Dallas Police Dept TX 202 57.9 41.1 .5
Dallas' white victims % is relatively high because of the large # of Hispanic victims, who are almost always classified as whites. Oh, BTW Realty 616, your hometown of Oakland? 69% of victims in 2005 were black.
Don't take my word for it. Here's the FBI website that will give you the racial breakdown of victims in all the major cities:
http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Homicide/Local/OneYearOfData.cfm
It's also laughable when you state nationally only 13% of murders are cleared. It's been holding around 55-57% for about last decade. This is common knowledge among law enforcement agencies. I also suspect that the cities where they film First 48, their clearance rate is higher than this national average.
Also, to your point that First 48 serves up black suffering for white voyeuristic consumption, I have so many black friends and acquaintances who are avid fans of the show that I bet the show is more popular among black folks than whites.
Finally, you say that the viewers are not emotionally engaged with the victims because they are "others", are you kidding? This is one of the most emotionally gun-wrenching shows out there!
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Posts:
6
From:
Oakland
Registered:
5/30/08
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(38 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Jul 11, 2008 6:04 PM
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also I would like to add that I would hardly consider my previous post a diatribe, there was no bitterness involved in the comment.
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Posts:
6
From:
Oakland
Registered:
5/30/08
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(37 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Jul 11, 2008 6:00 PM
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Go to the FBI's website and look at UCR rates for the nation , or to be even more acurate look at the UCR rates for the specific areas where the show is filmed, don't attack the messanger
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Guest
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(36 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Jul 11, 2008 9:16 AM
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Boy Reality, you sure like to hear yourself talk don't you?
Where are you getting your statistics? Please tell me, so I may look at them myself and not just take your word for it.
Wow! What a diatribe!
--
A mind is terrible thing to waste
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Posts:
6
From:
Oakland
Registered:
5/30/08
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(35 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Jul 11, 2008 9:00 AM
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Let me keep it real for a moment after all is said and done at the end of the day this is just a television show and subject to the same considerations that all other TV shows are subjected to. Whether it’s Friends or Oprah all TV shows are beholden to ratings (viewership) and sponsorship. What I don’t understand is every time I watch my TiVo recordings of “Nancy Grace” or “On the record with Greta Van Susteren” they are always showing new cases where young beautiful white women are being brutally murdered on almost a daily bases all across the country, often times pleading with the public for help in trying to solve the crime, in fact rarely do you ever see an African American’s case being profiled. On “The First 48” they often show African Americans and Latino’s as both the murder victims as well as the murder suspects, in fact watching 3 shows back to back ( representing 3hrs ) where 6 cases were profiled 4 out of the 6 ( or 66.66 %) involved African Americans , and 2 out of the 6 ( or 33.33%) involved Latinos. The issue at hand is truly what is and is not acceptable to the viewing audience, if something is not acceptable then viewership will be low, if something is acceptable then viewership will be within tolerable limits. Real life doesn’t lend itself readily to the dynamics of television which why “reality TV” is edited, in fact shows like “The First 48” are so edited they might as well call it scripted TV. In real life most of the time there are no suspects, most of the time there are no witness (cooperative or uncooperative), most of the time you may have a suspect but have insufficient evidence with which to charge them, sometimes suspects invoke their constitutional rights, most of the time cases turn into cold cases, in the United States only 13% of all homicides are actually solved, and while these facts are sad they are also true and ultimately don’t make for compelling television which is why these dynamics rarely if ever find their way into “The First 48”, so how real is it really? You ultimately don’t see the cases that they don’t solve; you don’t see the cases where no witness come forward which leaves the detectives stuck and as a result forces a case to become a cold case. The sad bottom line is that this show simply exploits the tragic violence in low income African American and Latino communities in order to provide a voyeuristic glimpse at that violence and death to a largely Caucasian audience that will remain unmoved ( I know this is a generalization, I’m just saying it to make a point about social norms) because the violence is not happening to them it’s happening to those “ others”, thereby giving them permission not to become emotionally vested, which surprisingly is why shows like law & order and its various incarnation are such a huge success because they are able to get the viewer emotionally vested in the victims, unlike “ The First 48” which basically uses its victims as a back drop . Even though they happen, you won’t see in any amount of frequency any beautiful blonde hair, blue eyed white women lying in a pool of their own blood with homicide detectives trying to solve the case all while exposing the brutal details because that would be considered unacceptable by today’s social standards and the ratings would go down as Caucasians turned away, unfortunately the same can’t be said when all involved are Black or Latino. Don’t hate the messenger , hate the message, and before you go on the attack check the facts, this show is taped in various locations including major metropolitan areas like Miami, so the argument that these murders are happening in areas with the highest black and Latino populations, or the highest crime rates doesn’t hold water. I’m not saying that Black and Latinos don’t commit murders; I’m saying that this show portrays it out of proportion to the national average as calculated by the FBI’s crime statistics, that’s misleading, and the original questions pose was “whether or not this show was misleading”, it is.
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Posts:
10
From:
MN
Registered:
6/8/08
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(34 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Jul 9, 2008 6:03 PM
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I don't think the show has ever exploited any ones race, gender, or the city they live in. Homicidal violence has been on the rise amongst young people for years. I live only 1 hour away from where the worst school shooting took place in minnesota's history. We all read the papers and watch the news but turn our heads until it hits home. What we don't see after the show airs is the lasting affects these crimes have on the victims families, the detectives investigating the crimes and their families, and the criminal's families of course. All of the detectives on this show have great strength and integrity. I personally could not do their job day in and day out with as much tact and respect. I am a huge fan of the show and will continue to watch.
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Posts:
5
Registered:
7/9/08
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(33 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
Jul 9, 2008 4:04 AM
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Yes, the majority of these criminals are black. I'm a white male but what has stood out more to me is how young most of them are. These are literally kids who just don't realize the conseqences of the crimes they are committing. I think a lot of inner city young black men are portrayed as thugs, but you can see on a lot of episodes, a good bunch of them genuinely seem to feel bad about what they've done, even to the point of crying. Or is it that they got caught? I think the show is fair and to have a successful series, it needs to go to the places where there is no shortage of crime. White, black or spanish- it shows the horrific things another human can do to another and thats what we need to pay attention to.
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Posts:
34
From:
Maryland
Registered:
5/7/08
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(32 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
May 30, 2008 9:27 PM
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Thank you Detective Martinez for the post!! I've been reading this thread most of the day and wanted to reply. But I couldn't find the right words. I think that you explained it beautifully. As for a thankless job. Just so you know I think you guys do a great job!!! Keep up the great work and stay safe!!!
--
God Bless America!!!
Support Our Troops!!
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Guest
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(31 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
May 30, 2008 5:49 PM
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31hunter: Well said!
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Posts:
23
From:
Miami, Fl.
Registered:
12/22/05
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(30 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
May 30, 2008 5:41 PM
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Let's clear the air a bit here. A&E does not pick the victims or cases as some have suggested on this thread. Let me explain the process:
1-A team is "Hot" and up for the next murder. It comes in regardless of race,gender or what part of the city they live in. "Hot" team along with F48 respond and filming starts. How is that being selective?
2- Shows are aired based on solved cases after Probable Cause has been established through investigative procedures. I recall several shows that did not have an African American suspect. It is unfortunate that Murders amongst blacks is higher than amongst any other race in the U.S. It is also unfortunate that it is black on black and it involves young men in their mid 20's.
Again, it is what it is and UCR rates will indicate that. The breakdown is interesting for those of you who would like to educate yourself. The charts are very specific!
3- A&E will not air a show that singles out one suspect for their safety and integrity of the investigation. You will see shows that leave you wondering which person did it.
4- The suspect arrested was taken into custody based on an investigation that developed probable cause through eyewitness accounts and forensic evidence(Not the CSI crap) This means that this person will be tried and a jury of it's peers. The jury has to be presented with enough evidence to find someone guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. You don't see that on the show because the episode would take a few days to watch. We cannot disclose everything for obvious reason.
How does that portray a suspect as being guilty on the show? What are we missing that you saw?
5-Lastly, a victim's family will be treated a little harshly because more often than not they already know or have an idea who may have been responsible for their loved ones murder. It is frustrating when these family members want to take justice into their own hands and more families have to get hurt. It is sometimes the way of STREETS as they call it. I have never seen any disrespect for any family members on this show. I have seen sympathy and sometimes pain felt by the detectives on some episodes. If someone can do better, than give it a try. You won't last the first day!
Please be responsible before you make accusations. It is bad enough that we miss out on so much in life in order to help a stranger during these investigations. We know it's a thankless job but don't throw stones at us either. Most of us do it because we love the work and what it stands for.
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Posts:
6
From:
Oakland
Registered:
5/30/08
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(29 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
May 30, 2008 5:18 AM
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As to the question of whether or not the show is misleading, I believe that it is in several very distinctive ways. First of all the show gives off the impression that by the end of the show the crimes have been solved and the suspects which they have apprehended though the course of the show are guilty and are sent off to be convicted, even though they do provide a disclaimer of innocence, but the fact is according to the U.S Department of Justice the vast majority of homicides in this country go unsolved, in fact only 13% of all homicides in the U.S are actually solve.
Then there is the misleading human aspect to the show. Perhaps the most unnerving part of the show is that it does very little to try and humanize the victims instead it uses them merely as a plot device. The main draw of the show which separates it from other programs like CSI, Law & Order, and its various incarnations is that the drama in this program is real and not something dreamt up by a team of writers. I often times wonder what if any is the level of consent that must be obtain for a program like this to exist, because if I was the loved one of a murder victim I would be offended by the distasteful manner with which the victims are being treated on the program. This was not just some person, this person was once alive with family, friends, perhaps children, dreams and aspirations and even though something tragic has happened to them no matter who they were they should be treated with the utmost dignity.
Lastly there is the issue of the witnesses. As I have posted earlier in the real world especially in urban areas witnesses often do not get the benefit of witness protection, in fact many witness protection programs have been virtually shut down due to a lack of funding, and as a result some witnesses have actually been murdered. It is misleading for the program to show witnesses coming forward and not fully disclosing to the audience just how dangerous that seemingly noble act can be
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Posts:
6
From:
Oakland
Registered:
5/30/08
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(28 of 42)
Re: First 48 is misleading
May 30, 2008 1:34 AM
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my question has to deal with the witness, is it legal to show the witness on tv , do they have to sign some type of consent form. Today especially in the uban areas witness are killed , what is done to ensure their protection
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