Since you are devoted members of the A&E community, we’d like to let you know of some changes that will be taking place on our network discussion boards. Coming this October, we will be moving the A&E discussion boards to an easier, more flexible platform. This exciting update will allow us to improve and expand your experience as a user with improved board functionality and robust member profiles. When the new community is ready, we will be turning off the ability to post here, but you’ll still be able to read the current boards. We have also set up a forum where we’ll be answering questions about the upcoming transition.
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Posts:
1
Registered:
8/24/09
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(41 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Aug 24, 2009 5:24 PM
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I fully agree that there is a line where children (by age) should be tried as adults. However, being the justice system, it should be consistent. For this reason, most countries have an age where one is considered and adult. I believe that this should be the firm line on weather to try someone as a child or an adult. In many cases, the brutality of the crime or the accused's criminal history defines weather someone is tried as a youth or adult. I don't think it should be a case by case decision, as there is no way to keep it 100% consistent. The fact that a 13 year old who brutally beats an "enemy" to death can get charged as an adult, and that a 17 year old with no history shoots and kills a random person can be charged as a juvenile makes no sense to me. If the system thinks a 13 year can consciously make criminal choices, then they should be tried as adults. If the system feels you need to be 18 to make criminal choices, then anyone under this age should be tried as a juvenile.
I just want to reiterate the point I am trying to make is that the law should be black and white and predictable. In my opinion, brutality and history should not constitute a gray area.
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Posts:
11,524
Registered:
9/7/99
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(40 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 11, 2009 11:15 AM
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I'm not sure either ace where it all begin to go downhill. But it most certainly has....and looks as though there's no end to it.
Just a few thoughts:
1.When did we start allowing such vile and hateful(and acceptable) shows on TV? I have watched a few shows for teens(and younger) and on them, were kids talking so disrespectable to the parents. If I had talked to my parents that way...my face would have been slapped into next week. I KNEW better than try something like that!
2. Why is it that kids have to have such toys as they do to entertain them? Why must kids always have to be 'entertained'? Is it because parents are so busy they need a 'babysitter' of some sort? Here, the city and different organizations are always trying to find something 'fun' for the kids to keep them occupied during the summer. Why not some sort of volunteer program to teach them to care for others, or their community? I don't mean to work them as slave labor....but teach them some sort of compassion and self respect, and respect for others.
3. When did it start that kids now have more rights than adults? For instance: parents drop off their 10 year olds at a movie rated 'R.' To me, they should not
be allowed in the theater at all...with or without the parents.
4. Kids these days seem to think they don't have to abide by any rules. As in dress codes in school. Kids have no respect for themselves when they seem to think it's ok to show their belly buttons and pants hanging so low you can see their underwear.
5. Parents dressing their kids like adults. And girls wearing make up way too young, and looking like little hookers.
6. Parents providing their kids with 'more than I had' thoughts. Yes, it's good to make sure your kids are well taken care of, but when you don't teach them the value of a dollar.
7. Parents not teaching kids to respect the belongings of others.
8. Instant gratification seems to be the rule these days. Things that make one happy only for a moment, then it's gone...no long lasting affect.
One thing that irks me is young girls getting pregnant, and still going to school.....having their babies, and the tax payers pays for a day care center IN the schools.
Parents not teaching the value of a life. Whether it is a human life, or that of an animal.
Ok, I'm sorry this is so long. But if we are going to think of a kid as a kid.....then that's what he should be. But most have their minds filled with adult thoughts and actions. If you don't want kids tried as adults....then let that parent take their child's place. You can't have it both ways.
(there's more I could add, but will wait for another post)
--
Stand up for what you believe in.....even if you have to stand alone.
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Posts:
861
From:
Lancaster, Tx
Registered:
12/10/08
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(39 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 11, 2009 10:39 AM
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Connie, That's a question that is so hard to figure out. You are rite of coarse - someone has to be responsible to their actions. But where do you draw
the line. Do you send a 10 year old to prison for 25-
30 years - where the is no possiblity that his life can
be turned around. Or do something to salvage his
life. Actually i was more speculating on how the
situation got so out of hand. I don't think this stuff
went on 50 years ago. I don't ever remember any
of my friends - or even some of the crowd I wouldn't
have run with talking about "knocking over a drug
store" God bless America - we sure do need it.
--
Prayers & Hugs to All
Have a Blessed Day - Ace
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Posts:
11,524
Registered:
9/7/99
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(38 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 10, 2009 7:32 PM
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ace, I agree with much of what you said. But shouldn't the crime they committed be considered? Where are the voices for the victims(in cases of murder)??
I think the main problem is kids these days have too many rights over their parents and other adults. Many times it's the parents that are to blame for their kid's behavior. When a child commits a horrible crime...should the parents be held responsible? Someone has to pay.....for the sake of the victims.
Or if it is vandalism...then defintely the parents should pay. People are coddling kids too much these days. Kids don't respect themsleves...let alone adults.
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Stand up for what you believe in.....even if you have to stand alone.
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Posts:
861
From:
Lancaster, Tx
Registered:
12/10/08
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(37 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 10, 2009 12:01 PM
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Ravensnest, I agree with you. Children are children.
They are not small adults, and should not be treated
that way. Maybe I'm from the "old school" and the
older generation but I don't understand some children
today. If I had ever talked to my mother or dad the
way I hear children talk to their parents today, I would
have had extensive denal work done. and my parents
were not mean people - they were honest fair and very kind and gentel people - but they believed that
children should respect their parents. [ and parents
should love and respect their children - but as children ] Children act the way they do today I believe
in part because we as adults allow them to do it. and
laws that were made to protect children from abusive
parents made it difficult for good decent parents to
correct their children. Then when these kids go wild
and commit all these crimes we scratch our heads and
wonder what happened. But in the end they are still
children -
--
Prayers & Hugs to All
Have a Blessed Day - Ace
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Edited by aceofhearts2008 at 06/10/2009 9:02 AM PDT
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Posts:
1
Registered:
6/10/09
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(36 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 10, 2009 11:24 AM
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Children should NEVER be tried as adults. They are NOT adults. If we are going to set age limits for them we must make those limits apply to everything. You can't say they're too young to drink, smoke, have sex, etc because they are too young to make those decisions for themselves you have to say they are not old enough to make ANY adult decision for themselves.
My daughter is 9... she knows the rules, she knows consequences but she doesn't have the ability to truly understand what it all means. I have an 18 year old step daughter. She fully believes she's an adult and can make decisions for herself. But even at 18 there are things they don't really get yet. It's the reason most 18 year olds move out thinkng they can live on $1000 a month only to have to come back home because they couldn't. They don't get it because they don't have the life experience yet to understand it.
Children are CHILDREN and should never be treated as an adult. We as a society have forgotten that and it's the reason our children are growing up faster than they should. Because we treat them like they are our equals. They are not. They are CHILDREN. Start treating them as such again and perhaps the crime rate created by children would go down.
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Posts:
861
From:
Lancaster, Tx
Registered:
12/10/08
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(35 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
May 15, 2009 2:52 PM
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Personally I think the "maturity" of the child should
take presidence over the actual "age". there are some children who have the mental maturity at 10
or 11 that some have as adults and some adults that
have the mental maturity of children. and it is proven fact that the part of the brain that controls anger control, and rational thot processes does not fully
mature in most untill the late teens or early 20's. This
can really be a two edged sword - I am glad that they
ruled you could not execute some one for a crime they
committed before the age of 18.
--
Prayers & Hugs to All
Have a Blessed Day - Ace
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Posts:
13
Registered:
5/12/09
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(34 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
May 12, 2009 2:12 PM
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I have thought about this and I think that it would depend on the age of the "child" I also believe there is a difference between children and teens, if anybody were to commit a crime against another child that has a disability or a teen commits a crime against a child or adult that has a disability then I think there should be circumstances that may call for it. I had not fully thought about it before but I don't think that our most helpless should suffer ...no matter what. It also depends on their roll in the crime.
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Edited by mel39 at 05/15/2009 11:06 AM PDT
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Posts:
13
From:
Canada
Registered:
1/6/09
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(33 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jan 6, 2009 12:48 PM
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In my opp, Depending on age of the child they are fully aware what they do in terms of right and wrong. what do you do when you do something wrong? take the punishment, that's why I think if a child is old enough to understand they should be tried as adults they are people to as I read the answers here I agree with everything I read ""Taking lives of others or putting someone in jeopardy of diminishing their psychological health is wrong. "" I agree fully 
--
In a trail of fire I burn before you bury me
Set your sights for the sun
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Posts:
11
From:
Southern California
Registered:
6/20/08
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(32 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 25, 2008 9:12 PM
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Yes children know right from wrong at about the age of 9, some younger. However, I feel they should not be in prison with adults until they are 21 years old so as to defend themselves from rape and mutilation. Some chiildren are as vicious and cunning as hardened criminals.
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Posts:
1
From:
Florida
Registered:
6/17/08
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(31 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 17, 2008 6:58 PM
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I believe that there are not stringent enough laws for children who commit crimes. I believe that children who commit pre-meditated crimes should be tried as adults.
I am a mother. I had 4 children. One in '78(M), one in '84(M), one in '85(M), and one in '94(F). The first and last are normal children. The 2 middle boys wern't.
The 2 middle boys one I will refer to as "C', the other "D" was diagnosed at age 5 & 6 with A.D.H.D., O.D.D., Conduct Disorders, Psycho-Social dis-order, bipolar, and Pyromania.
C. & D. were put on meds. immediately. We also had an in-home counselor, school counselor, pychiatrist, and pychologist the 2 boys saw every week. This aggressive therapy and medication continued for both to adulthood.
Through the years the boys were baker-acted each probaly 50 times. They were violent and uncontrolable most times. I had many times I had knives to my throat, or they once dis-located an adult staff members knee at school. Another time destroyed the computer lab at school. Hurting someone else or themselves was fun. One of them slammmed their grandmother's head into the trunk of a car, while she was atempting to get something out of it. It is only through the grace of GOD that all my kids and my ex and I are still alive. The boys also attended a school for troubled kids. I prayed every night that GOD take me, because I couldn't face another day.
What was the cause? I take my part in the blame, as I had a violent ex, who the kids saw beat me for 22 years. I did not remove them from that. I was not strong enough then.
But I also blame the juvenille court system. My kids were constantly in juvenille detention, or in front of a judge. The judge would give them a slapon the wrist or sentence them to 21 days detention. They would laugh. I begged for harsher punishments, which never came. If the boys had been made accountable and sentenced as adults or at least much harsher punishments, things may have been different. When they turned 18 D went to prison. He will get out in 2010. He did get paroled last year, but only lasted 3 months, before being sent back. I do not believe that he will ever be able to adjust to being on the outside. He has no remorse for what he does or who he hurts.
C, got into trouble a lot. He always said D and he were invinsible, and they could do whatever they wanted, and nothing would ever happen. Well he got his first DUI, and since then, it has scared him straight. He is a productive, caring member of society now. For one it is too late. The other has turned a new leaf over.
I believe that they should have been tried as adults when they were minors. This may have changed their whole lives.
Was it their home life? Their lack of punishments by the courts? Was it all the violence they see on TV? was it violent video games? Was it not the right combination of medicine? Was it a chemical in-balance in their system? For me I believe it was a combination of all.
Please know that I love my kids, but they deserved to be tried as adults. I believe that we need to commit them to jails and prisons, then institute better programs in those institutions for a chance for reform before they are parolled.
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Posts:
8
Registered:
3/28/08
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(30 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Mar 28, 2008 7:47 PM
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I am probably going to be hated for this, but I think it should be handled in a case by case basis. The courts should apoint an independant evaluator that will examine the child and see if he had the understanding of the crime and consequences at the time of the crime. If the juvenile understood and still committed the crime, then charge them as an adult and sentence them as an adult, but have them serve the portion of the sentence that is prior to their 18th birthday in a juvenile detention center though. If they truly didn't understand, then they should be treated as a juvenile and sentenced accordingly.
I don't think the crime should determine the status of the offender. If I am 12 and steal knowing it is wrong I should be punnished just as if I were 22 and had stolen the same object. However if I am 5 and kill a neighbor while playing with a dangerous object or somehow pushing them out a window or some other strange scenario, then I most likely did not understand or intend to kill. In fact most 5 year olds don't completely understand death is permanent. If we continue to equate youth with innocence than we will suffer the consequences when unscrupulous adults start using their young children and neighbors to commit crimes for them.
Don't forget that children are young and inexperienced but don't expect that their actions are purley innocent either. Many youths know the reprecussions of committing crimes at ages below 14 will normally be handled in juvenile court, with shorter sentences and their records sealed when they become adults. I have seen a 10 year old boy selling drugs in a neighborhood in my city and seen that same kid run when he saw the police coming down the street. He knows he's breaking the law, and if caught he should be punnished by the same law as an adult would, regardless of age.
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Posts:
42
Registered:
2/17/08
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(29 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Feb 17, 2008 8:06 AM
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I don't think that children should ever be tried as adults.
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Posts:
1
From:
san antonio, TX
Registered:
2/13/08
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(28 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Feb 13, 2008 6:57 PM
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I can only start with I am stunned; completely stunned!!! How can I truly express the emotions that are aroused within me with this specific topic? Here goes: children have no rights!! First, children under the age of twelve are not considered under the law competent to testify or make decisions about simple things such as visitation with parents (look it up). Second, under the age of sixteen children are not seen competent to drive. Lastly, children under the age of eighteen are not seen competent enough to make rational decisions regarding tobacco. Kids can’t even buy a beer until there 21. I guess my point here is where are the parents? What happened to taking responsibility for our (as adults; legal) actions or lack of there. 50 years ago this question would be seen as an abomination, today we judge so quickly; it must be the child, right? When do we truly begin to hold those responsible for the actions of their children? I just viewed this segment, and I can not begin to express my disgust with both the police and their blunt disregard of this child’s civil rights (and yes most of my family is law enforcement) and the mother’s blind trust in the system that has convicted her baby. Ok, so you believe that a child should face penalties of an adult; would this still be your opinion if it was your baby sitting there. This kid did not even understand the meaning of his verdict; as a society, how do we sleep. Yes, there was a victim here and yes he did pass at the scene of the “crime” but there are also two additional victims here. One the kid that obviously had an unjust punishment and society that now has to deal with the child (oh I am sorry the adult) that has been let go. When do we as a society finally stand up and say that is enough; our children are precious. Convict the molesters (more then 6 months), convict the rapist, convict the child killers, convict all those that hurt our kids; but don’t convict our kids.
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Guest
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(27 of 41)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jan 22, 2008 11:31 AM
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Children should never be tried as adults -- the problem is the Juvy Justice System - it does not take into consideration that children will commit "adult" offenses and therefore may need to be judged and sentenced accordingly. Our forefathers could never have conceived a 13 y/o would one day walk into a school firing an AK47~
--
"...but then someone comes along with a vision. With a real...passion for destruction!"
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