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Posts:
11
From:
Southern California
Registered:
6/20/08
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(32 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 25, 2008 9:12 PM
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Yes children know right from wrong at about the age of 9, some younger. However, I feel they should not be in prison with adults until they are 21 years old so as to defend themselves from rape and mutilation. Some chiildren are as vicious and cunning as hardened criminals.
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Posts:
1
From:
Florida
Registered:
6/17/08
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(31 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 17, 2008 6:58 PM
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I believe that there are not stringent enough laws for children who commit crimes. I believe that children who commit pre-meditated crimes should be tried as adults.
I am a mother. I had 4 children. One in '78(M), one in '84(M), one in '85(M), and one in '94(F). The first and last are normal children. The 2 middle boys wern't.
The 2 middle boys one I will refer to as "C', the other "D" was diagnosed at age 5 & 6 with A.D.H.D., O.D.D., Conduct Disorders, Psycho-Social dis-order, bipolar, and Pyromania.
C. & D. were put on meds. immediately. We also had an in-home counselor, school counselor, pychiatrist, and pychologist the 2 boys saw every week. This aggressive therapy and medication continued for both to adulthood.
Through the years the boys were baker-acted each probaly 50 times. They were violent and uncontrolable most times. I had many times I had knives to my throat, or they once dis-located an adult staff members knee at school. Another time destroyed the computer lab at school. Hurting someone else or themselves was fun. One of them slammmed their grandmother's head into the trunk of a car, while she was atempting to get something out of it. It is only through the grace of GOD that all my kids and my ex and I are still alive. The boys also attended a school for troubled kids. I prayed every night that GOD take me, because I couldn't face another day.
What was the cause? I take my part in the blame, as I had a violent ex, who the kids saw beat me for 22 years. I did not remove them from that. I was not strong enough then.
But I also blame the juvenille court system. My kids were constantly in juvenille detention, or in front of a judge. The judge would give them a slapon the wrist or sentence them to 21 days detention. They would laugh. I begged for harsher punishments, which never came. If the boys had been made accountable and sentenced as adults or at least much harsher punishments, things may have been different. When they turned 18 D went to prison. He will get out in 2010. He did get paroled last year, but only lasted 3 months, before being sent back. I do not believe that he will ever be able to adjust to being on the outside. He has no remorse for what he does or who he hurts.
C, got into trouble a lot. He always said D and he were invinsible, and they could do whatever they wanted, and nothing would ever happen. Well he got his first DUI, and since then, it has scared him straight. He is a productive, caring member of society now. For one it is too late. The other has turned a new leaf over.
I believe that they should have been tried as adults when they were minors. This may have changed their whole lives.
Was it their home life? Their lack of punishments by the courts? Was it all the violence they see on TV? was it violent video games? Was it not the right combination of medicine? Was it a chemical in-balance in their system? For me I believe it was a combination of all.
Please know that I love my kids, but they deserved to be tried as adults. I believe that we need to commit them to jails and prisons, then institute better programs in those institutions for a chance for reform before they are parolled.
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Posts:
8
Registered:
3/28/08
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(30 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Mar 28, 2008 7:47 PM
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I am probably going to be hated for this, but I think it should be handled in a case by case basis. The courts should apoint an independant evaluator that will examine the child and see if he had the understanding of the crime and consequences at the time of the crime. If the juvenile understood and still committed the crime, then charge them as an adult and sentence them as an adult, but have them serve the portion of the sentence that is prior to their 18th birthday in a juvenile detention center though. If they truly didn't understand, then they should be treated as a juvenile and sentenced accordingly.
I don't think the crime should determine the status of the offender. If I am 12 and steal knowing it is wrong I should be punnished just as if I were 22 and had stolen the same object. However if I am 5 and kill a neighbor while playing with a dangerous object or somehow pushing them out a window or some other strange scenario, then I most likely did not understand or intend to kill. In fact most 5 year olds don't completely understand death is permanent. If we continue to equate youth with innocence than we will suffer the consequences when unscrupulous adults start using their young children and neighbors to commit crimes for them.
Don't forget that children are young and inexperienced but don't expect that their actions are purley innocent either. Many youths know the reprecussions of committing crimes at ages below 14 will normally be handled in juvenile court, with shorter sentences and their records sealed when they become adults. I have seen a 10 year old boy selling drugs in a neighborhood in my city and seen that same kid run when he saw the police coming down the street. He knows he's breaking the law, and if caught he should be punnished by the same law as an adult would, regardless of age.
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Posts:
42
Registered:
2/17/08
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(29 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Feb 17, 2008 8:06 AM
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I don't think that children should ever be tried as adults.
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Posts:
1
From:
san antonio, TX
Registered:
2/13/08
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(28 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Feb 13, 2008 6:57 PM
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I can only start with I am stunned; completely stunned!!! How can I truly express the emotions that are aroused within me with this specific topic? Here goes: children have no rights!! First, children under the age of twelve are not considered under the law competent to testify or make decisions about simple things such as visitation with parents (look it up). Second, under the age of sixteen children are not seen competent to drive. Lastly, children under the age of eighteen are not seen competent enough to make rational decisions regarding tobacco. Kids can’t even buy a beer until there 21. I guess my point here is where are the parents? What happened to taking responsibility for our (as adults; legal) actions or lack of there. 50 years ago this question would be seen as an abomination, today we judge so quickly; it must be the child, right? When do we truly begin to hold those responsible for the actions of their children? I just viewed this segment, and I can not begin to express my disgust with both the police and their blunt disregard of this child’s civil rights (and yes most of my family is law enforcement) and the mother’s blind trust in the system that has convicted her baby. Ok, so you believe that a child should face penalties of an adult; would this still be your opinion if it was your baby sitting there. This kid did not even understand the meaning of his verdict; as a society, how do we sleep. Yes, there was a victim here and yes he did pass at the scene of the “crime” but there are also two additional victims here. One the kid that obviously had an unjust punishment and society that now has to deal with the child (oh I am sorry the adult) that has been let go. When do we as a society finally stand up and say that is enough; our children are precious. Convict the molesters (more then 6 months), convict the rapist, convict the child killers, convict all those that hurt our kids; but don’t convict our kids.
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Guest
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(27 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jan 22, 2008 11:31 AM
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Children should never be tried as adults -- the problem is the Juvy Justice System - it does not take into consideration that children will commit "adult" offenses and therefore may need to be judged and sentenced accordingly. Our forefathers could never have conceived a 13 y/o would one day walk into a school firing an AK47~
--
"...but then someone comes along with a vision. With a real...passion for destruction!"
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Posts:
5
Registered:
9/20/05
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(26 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Oct 1, 2005 2:23 PM
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I think it depens on the crime. While it is true children are not as mature as adults and their brains have not fully developed, most children still know the difference between right and wrong. Parents may not teach thier kids this, but it is taught in school by the rules that are made.
In cases where children commit murder, rape and oter various haneous crimes I believe that they should be tried as an adult unless the child is proven to be mentally imapaired as in retardation or something of that nature. Kids that are tried as juveniles usually only get three or four years in a juvenile detention center. This is not suitable for a violent crime such as rape or murder. I have spent time with troubled youths and they do know the difference between right and wrong. Many have stated that within the juvenile detention centers they learned about other criminal activities and how not to get caught. This happens in "adult" prisons as well though.
The whole issue is around violent crimes.... not petty. Usually violence does not stop with a trip to Juvie hall. When they step out at twenty-one most still have violent tendencies. Those with such tendencies will repeat the crimes committed if not worse crimes.
If more was done in the juvenile detention centers to help rehabiliate the troubled youths then perhaps trying children as adults could be less frequent. But this is not the case. Trying childen as adults for murder and rape is necessary. These are "adult" crimes, especially when premeditated. We can not just slap a child on the wrist for such crimes. I do think that children under a certain age should not be tried as adults. What the age should be I am not certain.... perhaps under the age of twelve. Who decides the age? Who is to say? Again it depends on the nature of the crime.
It is a shame that any child be tried as adult, but if the crime fits than it is needed.
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Posts:
3
Registered:
9/22/05
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(25 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Sep 22, 2005 8:14 PM
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Your comparing apples with oranges friend. One involves injuring/defrauding/stealing from another, and needs to be dealt with. The other? No harm/no foul!
mr.
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Posts:
102
Registered:
6/13/05
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(24 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jul 27, 2005 6:55 AM
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CMERCADEL: Your right, we did make laws and, that's why laws can be amended as we learn and progress in life. I was a cop also, you claim you were, you should understand. You cannot make a mark and say "this is it, everyone over this is.....etc, so on" each and every case has to be judged by it's own merits. You should if you were a cop, understand this. Not all people are the same.
I can't believe you made some of these statements if you were a cop, why aren't you now, did they finally catch up with you?
Your contradictory in your statements. Yes, children have to have the intelligence to understand what's right from wrong but, this starts in the home with the parents. Then continues with the teacher, the mentor and continuing education. When they fall to the wayside, they must be helped but, there are some that won't reach out, these are the ones that we have to look at and make reasonable judgments as to what we do with them. I know some that will never be able to be reached, they are the career criminals. Is this a personality trait? or?
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Posts:
3
Registered:
7/23/05
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(23 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jul 23, 2005 1:00 AM
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We made Laws, Created Laws, Voted for Laws, now everyone wants to change it to benefit themselves. Juveniles are children up to the age of 18. Adults are 18 and above. Maybe if we abided by our own laws and teach children everything could be different. The reason they are called Juvenile is because they do not have the education or Knowlege to be wise. Being Wise comes with age. Knowlege come with EDUCATION. How can you convict a child as an adult who does not have enough Knowlege or common sense to really understand right from wrong. I was a Cop for 20 years and feel that our Juvenile Court System in the entire US should be overhauled. Its a shame how we treat our children.
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Posts:
102
Registered:
6/13/05
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(22 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jul 18, 2005 6:00 AM
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I've been looking at this a little closer. With my own grandchildren. Five spent their vacations at my place this summer. Two are teenagers the others a mix of boys and girls are pre-teens. They also had their friends over for some nights. As each spoke about an incident and life in general I listened carefully. Two of the older friends are girls fourteen and fifteen. One young girl was nine but, she was in fact older mentally then the two teenagers and their ideas. She was leading them with her ideas and, they followed. My grandson is twelve and one of the boys. Although he lead conversations, the nine year old girl would laugh at his ideas and he would stop speaking. He would then follow the girls lead. Surely this was all telling me something in my little way. Maybe in a long run it would be different but, I thought the nine year old girls was leading all of them. She's very intelligent and forward in her ways.
For sure, you can't judge kids by just their age, no way. You have to judge them as individuals, separately. I do believe this girl at nine could have lead all of them on a trail of misbehaving if she thought so. By the way, she's a strict Catholic and very orderly, and smart. She also has excellent grades and is very family orientated but, without this guidance? what could happen.
We cannot say everyone under ten years old...everyone over sixteen years old. We have to judge separately and alone without regard to age.
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Posts:
1
Registered:
7/15/05
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(21 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jul 15, 2005 2:33 PM
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Children are in progress. They should be taught right from wrong, but they also require monitoring. THey do not have the experiences that adults have to draw upon. We get wiser as we experience consequences. Their minds have not fully formed.
I think it depends very much on the circumstances of the crime and the atmosphere and lessons the child was raised in. The punishment should consider the past experiences, the personality, and whether the child can be reshaped. The effort should be in what will help the person grow into a better human while they are still in formative years. Some kids can be saved, some are too far gone.
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Posts:
776
From:
Ohio
Registered:
7/1/04
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(20 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 27, 2005 3:45 PM
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I agree!!!
This topic is extremely sensitive and divided....
A few years ago here in Ohio on interstate 70, a 16 year old threw a rock from an overpass...here is the story. http://www.nbc4i.com/news/1211194/detail.html
There is also a 12 year old boy who threw a rock and blinded a young girl.....he got probation and was ordered to spend 40 hours with the reverend in the story. Like I said it's tough...
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Posts:
102
Registered:
6/13/05
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(19 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 27, 2005 6:07 AM
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jessiegirl: your talking about an entirely different ballgame here. Children IE: teens or? that have actually planned and committed a murder to solve their own purposes is something else. This is a fact that there are a few that have done this, to the dismay of others that didn't actually know or conceive what they were doing. This is why I for one think they have to be treated separately and under different conditions. I took up a stance for one kid in our neighbor hood, even against my spouse, because he was a cherub looking young redhead that I thought was unjustly misunderstood. He was eleven years old. After about a year, I came to find out the little blankity-blank was using and conning me and others to his own uses. His mother is now doing time so he wouldn't get a max penalty, she took part to blame for what he did, he's in a foster home and under court supervision but, I'll guarantee anyone that were not through hearing from him yet. His little partner is twelve and just as bad but, has to be led, by someone like him. He's doing time also, his mom washed her hands of him. What to do with kids like this ?? I tried everything from fishing trips to sit around and BS'ing, for my grandsons sake, nothing worked.
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Posts:
102
Registered:
6/13/05
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(18 of 32)
Re: Under what conditions should children be tried as adults
Jun 18, 2005 6:16 AM
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In an earlier post I mentioned the lady down the street that allowed her 14 year old to use her car: No license, insurance or? he hit another car. He went to juvvie, she went to County for "allowing" finally someone woke up to the fact that "Yes" the boy was a moral and legal dilemmina in the neighborhood that couldn't or wouldn't be controlled by the parents or, for that matter, the courts. He was " a youngster that was just venting his oats" some said. This included looking into windows at night! watching young girls and women undress, Deputies slapped his hands. Starting his yard on fire to "burn" his mobile and show his mom a lesson for disciplining him" another slap on the hands. Stealing from neighbors. When he was home, we stayed home to watch our property, in all the years we lived here, we started locking our doors and pulling shades at night. He had us on a hostage situation. How far was the boy allowed to go before the system finally said "no more" they looked at the mother, who smiled and stated "he's just a boy" "a baby" well this baby is in a foster home now and the mom is doing time for allowing him to be "just a boy" we have no regrets. He was also accused of molesting young girls in the neighborhood, swore like a drill sergeant, nothing was safe from him. When my spouse told him to stay away from our property for destroying our apple trees, he used language I've never heard. He had us under a threat of violence and went door to door begging money, later to find out for cigarettes, what to do about a person like this before he really hurts someone?
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